Thanks to Eva Adshead, below is an account of our meeting in Committee Room 17 on Tuesday, October 28, 2009.
Since then we have collectively composed an Open Letter to Mervyn King which we trust Austin Mitchell MP will send on our behalf.
Notes taken by Eva Adshead at meeting in Committee Room 17, House of Commons, on 27th October 2009 chaired by Sabine McNeill from 3 to 4.45 pm
Present: Sabine McNeill, Chair; (SM)
Brad Meyer; (BM)
Brian Hudson; (BH)
Gedaljahu Ebert; (GE)
Deborah Ebert; (DE)
Abdallah Homouda; (AH)
Johan Foenander; (JF)
Eva Adshead; (EA)
Kelvin Hopkins MP. (KH)
These notes are ad hoc and do not represent an ad verbatim account.
Mr. Hopkins MP (KH) mentioned that last Monday there was an economic debate and only he, Mr. Dobson MP and Mr. Meacher MP took part.
Sabine McNeill (SM) said that she had tried to get MP’s together to find out what they could do for victims in specific cases, wondering what political avenues were available? The last EDM No 1297, to which thirteen MP’s signed up, has served its purpose.
Eva Adshead (EA) proposed that an EDM is tabled exposing the Government’s involvement and financial interest in the outcome of bankruptcies.
SM asked KH what is the most effective way forward?
KH He suggested writing to Ministers through one’s MP’s. He stated that he is a Socialist and works closely with Austin Mitchell MP (AM) who he prefers to be in the front lead. Many of his constituents are poor from Punjab and Kashmir whose problems he has had to learn to understand by going to Punjab etc.
EA asked why UK citizens can’t be helped and that the problem is only down the road in the Strand at the Royal Courts of Justice! He need not go to Punjab to understand this one.
SM asked KH, if we write a template of a letter, would he vet it and pass it on to other MP’s?
KH replied by saying that AM needs to be involved to which SM commented that AM tends to be “very busy.”
KH explained that being to the left of the Labour Party, they have to cover so much ground and be at every meeting for their voice to be heard about council housing, EU, economy, banking …The same names crop up: AM, David Taylor MP, David Drew MP. We have ability on our side and we are persistent.
SM asked how one copes with the Select Committee and that she has been advised by a lawyer to go for Parliamentary scrutiny via the Treasury Select Committee.
KH: if you can get an audience.
SM: can an MP get an audience?
KH: you can write to the Chairman. AM will know better than me. The Chair of the Treasury Committee is very powerful and influential. Many people want to put cases to it. You know how it works.
SM: I have been fobbed off by McFall and, above all, his committee clerks.
KH: but if AM and myself and a group ask for it; typically three people; if it was a small group led by AM as leader and I would like to be involved too.
Brad Meyer (BM): are there areas that AM would defer to you?
KH: no. AM has been in Parliament twice my time. We are very close and almost agree on everything. I like AM a lot. I don’t want to start making big recommendations; I want to talk to him first; you can also make written submissions to the Select Committee.
SM: I used to do that at already at the House of Lords and Green Credit for Green Purposes, together with Green Taxation v Green Funding were our submissions to the Treasury Select Committee in response to their enquiry into the Stern Review. Another submission was in response to the enquiry into the Banking Crisis. A lot of work but still nothing changes.
KH: you have to keep on relentlessly over and over. My experience – a scientist or mathematician – as a politician you say: “It’s very interesting – we’ll consider the matter.” Go on and on and on …..
KH: economics, in particular, is making the case for the Keynesian position back in 1990 and years later and on the verge of collapse and people are now discovering 1945-70 and people are now saying: “you were right.” Being relentless and dogged.
SM: I will send you a press release from Geoffrey Hodgson. In terms of getting questions with written answers: are you aware there is a Financial Crisis Commission in the US – www.keithhennessy.com ? There is a historic power battle between Westminster and the City. How do you reckon that is best exposed?
KH: if you publicize newspaper articles making a simple point not too complicated; it has to be simplified.
SM: John Flintoff; The Sunday Times and Simon Jenkins from the Guardian
KH: he is an intelligent man.
SM: would you be willing to be contacted by them? Could you go with AM? Eva was asking: “are EDM’s effective?”
KH: EDM’s get a message before MPs and journalists. The majority of MP’s don’t understand economics. It’s got to be relatively straight forward. I used to teach economics.
SM: The Tories know more than Labour?
KH: many worked in the City. New Labour don’t like to be challenged and, therefore, they don’t want anybody who disagrees.
SM: Ebert’s suggestion of a letter to Mervyn King of Bank of England (BoE) whenever anyone is declared bankrupt an account is opened in the Bank. The Government financially benefits from bankruptcies. The Government should create its own money through bonds and not credit. How do we take EDM 1297 further? Get the cases of the people who have been made bankrupt.
KH: to explain the case through a large article in the Guardian/Simon Jenkins so that we understand what the situation is. Make an explanation as to how it works.
BM: we will work on a letter to the BoE and provide it to you
KH: Try to get the letter published in the Times.
JF: the editors have been got at and threatened.
SM: Simon Jenkins, Guardian, Lintoff, Times. Our bankruptcy expert is Mr. Ebert.
GE: I would like to clarify the issue which started in the last fifteen years. All the bankruptcies within the High Court all over the country, I would say 95%, are unlawful. The problem with the bankruptcy proceedings within the last fifteen years is that the authoritative people did not abide by the law. They ignored the law from a to z.
Would the law and the rule of law apply to the authorities who are dealing with insolvency and it starts from the Prime Minister down the line all the authorities, Government. Comply with the straight forward law and we would have at least 80% less bankruptcies. I have confirmation from Tony Blair and Gordon Brown that they are not responsible for what is going on in this country. Rudi Vis MP was shut up – did not get any response – I can’t get anywhere – maybe the DTI (now BIS).
The letter to Mervyn King is to inform him what we saw in last week’s Sunday Mail “Secret courts seizes £3.2bn from Elderly.” People are presenting themselves in bogus official capacity and forms from the courts or Insolvency Service (IS) are false.
KH: I am completely out of my depth. I am not a lawyer and don’t understand bankruptcy law. What does it mean re BoE? You have to start lowly so I can understand what it is about.
GE: Money that has been recovered has to be under DTI control – a Bank account is run in the BoE so it is under Government control. The money that goes in and out is run by criminals dressed up as professionals. Money that goes into BoE is proceeds of crime. If they clean the money in the BoE account, they distribute it.
KH: my knowledge is so negligible. Say I got a company and the company goes bust and the receiver comes in and takes the assets and there is a bit of money. The receiver then puts the money into
GE: we need (1) Public Enquiry (2) ensure IS shall be involved. How do we get (1) and (2) dealt with?
KH: The top of Government; does anybody in Government understand?
GE: They are covering up
KH: the Home Secretary
GE: Shows documents to KH and where Police letter blames change of name from Maurice Woolf to Ralph Woolf in photo copy of order on the photo copier!
AH: emotions are running high. What Mr. Ebert has said with great conviction emanating from the suffering; the problem how to gather support in order to get the Establishment to distance itself from what is going on and put things right. It is said in many quarters the Establishment is implicated.
SM invited each person attending to have a brief final word. The final note was ‘apartheid’ mentioned by JF and ‘slavery,’ referred to as ‘debt peonage’ by SM, brought up by EA.